On The INC Debacle: Get Real Philippine Democracy!

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So I’ve said my piece about the INC, now it’s time to write something about the government officials who are supposed to be addressing the issue…

The thing is, our politicians and media insist that our government is a modern democratic one. However, the more I look at the situation unfolding in EDSA and how the various presidential candidates are reacting, the more doubtful I become about the kind democracy we supposedly have as a country. Let’s be clear here, I’ve never really had any real faith in the politicians of the Philippines. However, the way they seem to be responding to the troubles caused by the INC in EDSA is utterly preposterous.

iglesia_ni_cristo_23

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Do I really need to remind people that we are a democratic country? Do I need to say that, being a “democracy”, Philippine politics should keep a respectable distance from religious organizations and vice versa?What’s worse is that I don’t think I’m the only person complaining about this and asking the same questions. In a democratic country, the laws of the land should be solid and impersonal and those upholding it should be adamant in their resolve to see that they are obeyed and that no other organization in said country, religious or otherwise, are given any power over it unless they compose the majority.

The INC, at best, are just another portion of the populace. They are, by definition, a minority and, while they have rights too like any other common citizen of the Philippines, it is another thing entirely for them to infringe on the rights of others. Unfortunately, due to their bloc voting habits, the INC get away with a lot of things since presidential candidates invest a great deal in pleasing them so that they can be voted into office. So this is what? A minority influencing the government into becoming their lapdog?

The response of government officials and other authorities is simply astounding in a very sad way. We have Jejomar Binay (who probably has little respect for human rights to begin with) and Grace Poe (who I doubt even know what she’s talking about) saying that INC has a right to protest since they have a permit, this despite the fact that they’re causing a lot of traffic and delaying emergency situations and the arrival of perishable goods. Then there’s our good friend Mar who issued a statement that the INC should not make a nuisance of themselves but somehow refuses to get involved and has gone off to safety as he also doesn’t want to lose the INC’s favor in the upcoming election.

What’s sad is, as fellow realist Paul Farol has said, if these were farmers or even students from a school, they would just get bombed with tear gas and hosed with water cannons. It seems that the government is beholden to the INC which is unbecoming of them considering that, much like farmers and students, they’re just another group of people who just happen to share the same religion.

The central point is: a crime has been committed. People were detained against their will and that, ladies and gentlemen, is tantamount to kidnapping and is a serious crime no matter where you go. The victims deserve to have their case examined and investigated as the INC have violated the rights of other people. No, it is not a religious or private matter. Kidnapping is still kidnapping and murder is still murder regardless of what deity its perpetrators worship.

Sidenote: I want to play Silent Hill but I never said that I wanted to live there…

23 Replies to “On The INC Debacle: Get Real Philippine Democracy!”

  1. You’re absolutely right, Grimwald. The separation of Church and State should have legally defined parameters on both sides of the barrier, with the two sides operating in mutually exclusive spheres.

    If INC insists on acting like a Political Dynasty and Politicians continue to court INC for votes, then we need to call the charade for what it is, a FRAUD.

    I just started a Petition; asking Senator Santiago to draft a NEW DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE from Political Dynasties.

    We propose to have it adopted through Petition of Initiative and Referendum, so 50 Million Filipinos regardless of heritage or circumstance, can know their signature is memorialized for all time, as Co Sponsor and Stakeholder in a Real Democracy.

    In view of what’s happening in Manila, I suppose we we can also include freedom FROM RELIGION and Religious Tyranny.

    1. The blatant ignorance of “some” INC, or anyone else, who accused the DOJ investigation is a shame. Just because they said it is s sham, it is a sham absent evidence, reason, and logic.

      First, it was members, or former members of the INC who went to the DOJ to report of SID case against the INC. These mental midgets are playing the victim card.

      Yes, the INC has every right to a peaceful assembly and, as far as I am concerned, the DOJ is not stopping them. You have a right to a peaceful assembly WITHOUT INFRINGING THE RIGHTS OF THE PUBLIC, by creating a gridlock which make it difficult for them to go on with their daily lives. You should also SEEK for a permit before you start to protest. Herbert Bautista said that he did not receive any permission from the INC to protest in QC, and that is clearly not COVERED by the freedom of assembly clause!

      The DOJ meddling with Church matters? Are you stupid or a blabbering idiot? The DOJ would have not investigated the ALLEGED SID case if NOBODY reported it to them! There is a separation of church and state but THE CHURCH CANNOT CONDUCT ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. The church is not the absolute authority in terms of legal matters.

      So you are telling us that if a catholic priest has been ALLEGEDLY accused of molesting a minor, the State should not intervene and allow the church to handle its own legal matter? Ugh, I do despise stupid people who present an argument without providing logic or evidence.

      If you believe in the separation of church and State, why do you follow your INC leader like mindless sheep, when he tell all INC member to vote for a specific president?!? Church should not meddle with State matters or TELL ITS MEMBERS who to vote.

      I have an INC friend and he told me that it is their religious obligation to vote for whom their Leader tell them to vote because it shows unity. If you ask me, it shows you are being a mindless sheep. Telling your sheep who to vote and “suggesting” who to vote are entirely two different things.

      What if congress voted to legalize same sex marriage, abortion, and divorce? Would you not protest on the streets and claim that your religious liberty is being infringed upon? If you say yes, you are an even bigger idiotic moron.

      There is freedom of religion and also FREEDOM FROM RELIGION! The same goes for majority rules and minority rights. UGH! Some people are just downright stupid! I have no problem if someone express their views AS LONG AS THEY BACK IT WITH LOGIC AND FACTS, but I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WHEN THEY USE LOGICAL FALLACIES. It shows them how stupid they really are. The worst part is they sound like they know it all when they don’t know shit!

      I read one post by the INC that was so thoughtful and considerate although he used emotional appeal fallacy. Yes, he was being ignorant but I admire him for ADMITTING that he didn’t know much about the law, and that he is just speaking from the hard. Yes, he was ill-informed and dumb but I have so much respect for him because he didn’t make any false and stupid allegations. But for some here who falsely accused the government and the DOJ for fabrication without presenting a valid argument or facts are just ignorant and ill-informed posers. PWE!

  2. You know to yourself that DOJ investigation is just a sham, this investigation is to put pressure to INC to support Mar for President. You’ve witnessed how they played this kind of game, even without hard evidences they can fabricate just to get what they want. INC is not the enemy here, INC’s are showing unity here to say enough of this harassment made by this government to persecute those who are not on their side. #UniteWithINC and go to the street join with them instead of writing and criticizing the same rights you have.

    1. Well said. This Yellow Government is also a Sham and they don’t have the moral authority to implement the Law where they are the number one violator.

      1. Moral authority? Who has the moral authority then to implement laws? You are whining bec your cult leaders had been accused of illegal detention and you are accusing the case against INC to be a sham? Tell me this, Einstein, who went to the DOJ and complain about illegal detention ALLEGEDLY committed by INC leaders to their members?

        You are basically saying the government should not do anything about an alleged crime? You are saying that the INC leaders should not be investigated and just leave them be although an alleged crime was committed? Damn, you are painfully stupid!

  3. The question is based on the definition of a democracy simply provide. In the case of the Philippines, you can say it is an authoritarian system, a “Aquinocracy”!

    Definition of democracy

    The term democracy comes from the Greek language and means “rule of the (simple) people.” The ancient “democracies” in Athens and Rome represent precursors of today’s democracies and emerged as this in response to excessive Mach wealth and abuse of power of the rulers. But only in the Enlightenment (17th / 18th century.) Formulated philosophers the essential elements of a modern democracy: separation of powers, fundamental rights / human rights, religious freedom and separation of church and state.

    Definition authoritarian regime

    Rule of a small group of rulers. In contrast to the totalitarian state authoritarian regimes have no distinct state ideology and tolerate certain freedoms (for example, economic and cultural), so long as their rule is not jeopardized. The main objective of authoritarian regimes is the preservation of their own power and personal enrichment at the expense of the state and its population.

  4. The question is based on the definition of a democracy simply provide. In the case of the Philippines, you can say it is an authoritarian system, a “Aquinocracy”!

    Definition of democracy

    The term democracy comes from the Greek language and means “rule of the (simple) people.” The ancient “democracies” in Athens and Rome represent precursors of today’s democracies and emerged as this in response to excessive Mach wealth and abuse of power of the rulers. But only in the Enlightenment (17th / 18th century.) Formulated philosophers the essential elements of a modern democracy: separation of powers, fundamental rights / human rights, religious freedom and separation of church and state.

    Definition authoritarian regime

    Rule of a small group of rulers. In contrast to the totalitarian state authoritarian regimes have no distinct state ideology and tolerate certain freedoms (for example, economic and cultural), so long as their rule is not jeopardized. The main objective of authoritarian regimes is the preservation of their own power and personal enrichment at the expense of the state and its population.

  5. Hindi na masama ‘tong sinimulan ng INC If there are people who can pick up from here and rally for the right cause. Pero gaya ng nasabi na, ito ay lumalabas na laban lang ng INC at ginawa sa layong hindi mapakialaman (o patuloy na maikubli) ang dibisyon sa kanilang mga pinuno at maling practice na nagaganap sa loob ng kanilang simbahan (the case is illegal detention and human rights violation). Una sa lahat, bakit biglang lumabas ang panawagan nilang separation of Church and State bago pinupuntirya lang nila ang DOJ at si De Lima?

    Mahirap kapag sumusunod lang at hindi nag-iisip. Nasasayang ang oportunidad.

    1. Naknak, unfortunately, there is no cure for stupidity. Education can cure ignorance, Medicine can cure madness but there ain’t no fixing cult members.. NONE!

  6. ang totoo nyan wala naman tlagang nangyaring illegal detention..tuntunin sa INC n kung me ministro n may kasong dapat imbestigahan ndi po xa pinapayagang umalis hanggang me desisyon n ukol s kaso nya. yan po ang nangyari kay Mr, Samson at kanyang pamilya nung nangyari ung snasabi nyang illegal detention xa po ay nasasakupan p ng tuntunin ng Iglesia dhil ndi p xa tiwalag.doon po pumapasok ung pinaglalaban na separation of church at government…dahil technically nasasakop p xa ng tuntunin s Iglesia.at me karapatan ang INC na ipatupad ang anumang internal regulation meron cla kung xa man po ay me nagawang paglabag.
    kya mali n mghain c Mr. Samson ng reklamo s DOJ at pakinggan nila xa kc church matters po iyan.Mali din n malagay xa sa witness protection program agad na wala png naihahain na kaso sa korte.
    “selective justice” po ang nangyari s kilos ni Sec De lima..at ito po ang pinaglalaban ng INC n dapat pigilan ang ganitong klase ng pamamalakad s DOJ..

    1. Salamat. Nasagot nito ng direkta ang tanong ko. Sa totoo lang hindi naman siguro nais ng mga mamamayang labas sa INC na pakialam ang batas sa loob ng simbahan lalo at inayunan ito ng mismong miyembro. Ang problema lang siguro ay ang malawak na konotasyon ng panawagang separation of church and state, at ang paghahain na ngayon ng kaso ni Mr. Samson na sakop na ngayon ng batas ng Republika (gaya nga ng nabanggit na rin sa ibang artikulo, ang kaso ay inihain sa DOJ na dahilan kaya ito ay pumapagitan ngayon) at ang sinasabi ng ibang myembro na ang assembly na nagaganap ngayon ay para sa kapakanan ng buong bansa pero ito nga po ang nangyayari

      http://getrealphilippines.com/2015/08/the-trouble-with-the-iglesia-ni-cristo-is-that-they-trouble-us/

      1. Naiintindihan namin ang sinabi mo, hindi kami against sa imbestigasyon, wala kang tiwala sa gagawin ng DOJ..tulad ng hindi niyo rin pinaniwalaan yung mga ebidensya na inihain ni De Lima noong Impeachment ni CJ Corona, yung fabricated evidences ni Benhur Luy para makulong sila Enrile, Revilla, at Jinggoy. Dahil kilala si De Lima na mahilig tumahi ng kuwento kahit walang ebidensya…Supreme Court order na hindi niya sinunod mas sinunod niya gusto niya…kahit na ikakadisbar niya, kahit baluktot ang ginagawa niya nasa ulo niya siya ang tama…gets mo? PDAF and DAP investigation nga hindi niya maitulak kahit maraming ebidensya selected lang gusto niya..ngayon gusto mo kaming maniwala sa sasabihin niya? Mga Ministro itong mga sinasangkot nila hindi ito masasamang tao…okay ka lang?

        1. @Chris, okay lang ako salamat sa pagtatanong. So kung pumasok ang DOJ at si De Lima sa batayan n’yo bilang mapagkakatiwalaan ng inyong sekta, papayag kayong maimbestigahan nila ang kasong inihain nila Mr. Menorca at Samson? At ano ba para sa inyo ang ahensya at pinuno ng gobyernong mapagkakatiwalaan ng INC? At kung hindi umabot ang kasong ito sa DOJ at walang miyembro ninyo ang haharap sa “fabricated evidences”, pagtahi ni De Lima ng kwento kahit walang ebidensya at “selective justice”, ibig sabihin walang rally na aasahan sa Iglesia at hahayaan n’yo rin sila sa ganoon nilang practice?

  7. pero s pamantayan po ng DOJ ano po ba ang matatawag n serious illegal detention..gaya po ba yan ng cnasabi ni mr. samson n ndi xa pinayagang lumabas ng bahay pero pinahintulutan xa ng magsabi xang dadalo s worship service? eh ndi b parang dun pa lang e meron nang inconsistency s kwento nya…bkit po xa makakalabas ng bahay kung nakahostage xa? at nagawa p pong mgpapress conference.gayong sabi nya kinumpiska daw lahat ng gadgets n meron cla..pano po nakapagorganize ng presscon ang ganun. kung nasusubaybayan nyo po ang kwento nila cla din ang grupong nasa likod ng abduction kuno ni Angel Manalo at Tenny Manalo…tpos po ng imbestigahan kung totoo ang hostage taking, ano po ang isinagot ni Angel..me bata daw po n nagbibiro ang humawak ng signage n “tulong hostage kami”…
    ganun din ung sabi nila tungkol sa sampung ministro ng INC na inabduct…pinangalan po ung apat pero lahat ng mga iyon ngpatotoo n walang nangyaring abduction tpos ung anim ndi n po napangalanan…lahat ng allegations hanggang dun lang wala namang napatunayang totoo.
    maliwanag naman po ang layunin ni mr samson na siraan ang INC, ang nakakalungkot lang pati po ung DOJ nagpagamit sa knila baka meron clang agreement dahil ngpahayag n c sec De lima ng balak nyang pagkandidato for senator…ang bawat politiko n nakikisangkot sa laban ng INC me kanya kanya po clang motibo pero ang concern lang ng INC mapigilan ang anumang religious persecution at khit naman po ndi inc naniniwala akong me karapatan n ipaglaban ang faith nila kung s tingin nila eh nadedehado o may unfair n nangyayari…

  8. another moment of building philippine style democracy. philippines, get to know the concept of separation between church and state. first, let’s analogize…if a occult religion prescribes human sacrifice as a genuine part of their religion, should this be allowed because it is a part of their religion? of course not…laws punishing murder are meant to protect everyone regardless of religion. This same logic should apply to illegal detention. The illegal detention law’s purpose is to keep people safe and not meddle in a church’s affairs.

    But as is always the case in the philippines, logic is not the problem. the credibility and perceived partiality of the officials enforcing the law is the problem. The problem with raising this canard (that all officials are corrupt) is that it gives everyone and their mother an excuse not to trust the legal process. Trust that is the problem.

  9. Mr. Thaddheus Grimwald: It is the Dog’s Tail WAGGING the Dog’s Body…

    The Iglesia Ni Kristo, can Wag/Shake the Aquino administration. Even the Amorous De Lima is courting them. She has a vested interest on their Block Votes.
    Any Politician who has hidden interest on the INK Block Votes, will surely REFRAIN from offending the Iglesia Ni Kristo.

  10. I really hope all of these drama about the INC is not about an upcoming movie “Felix Manalo” which stars Dennis Trillo. I saw a banner earlier. Because I don’t like the idea that they could be hyping it at the expense of the motorists and some government resource.

    I just remembered the 2012 end of the world issue then suddenly a movie pops out with the same title.

  11. You kept on insisting there was a crime committed. We have made ourselves clear but you chose to believe lies, lies about the INC. Appreciate if you find time to watch this vid [speaking here is one of the ministers who they (the liars) claimed was abducted] https://youtu.be/gdyx3wmkbSU

    1. No one presumes that a crime has been committed. I am also sure that if the Sanggunian is indeed innocent, they should be able to easily get the case dismissed. Thus, this demonstration is clearly the result of the group’s self-importance, guilt, influence peddling and/or show of power and is unwarranted. Get off the streets damn it. This group isn’t interested in the rule of law, they just want to make others bend to its will.

  12. Tinuro naman ata sa school ung “innocent until proven guilty”, walang nag-aasume n may krimen nang nagawa, may nagreklamo so kailangan aksyunan. Ngayon kung may special treatment man na ginagawa si de lima, di n bago sa government yan, di nio b napapansin pag may high profile case, dun n lng halos nakatutok mga pulis. Look at pemberton case may hearing na agad, im just wondering ung mga hindi naman sikat ang involve kung mabilis din ang roll ng justice. Pero sa part ng inc, wala pa ngang warrant na naiirelease, besides, may due process para dun nio ipaglaban ng nasa lugar kung wala ngang kasalanan ung nirereklamo. Sino ba ang diyos nio, ang mga ministro, lahat tayo ay dinesenyo n magkaroon ng pagiisip n naghahanap ng katotohanan, ung mga naliligaw ay kung hindi alam ang katotohana ay iniiwasab ito. Isang malaking insulto sa lumalang sa atin na basta n lng kayo sumusunod sa kung sino nang hindi niyo pinagiisipan kung tama ba na mamerwisyo kayo ng ibang tao sa kadahilanang inutusan lng kayo tumakbo sa kalsada. Minsan nanood ako ng dating daan ni bro.eli, may sense naman ung sinabi niya na sinasabi ng bibliya na maging mapanuri kayo at huwag maging sunud sunuran, utos ng diyos un. So ano ginagawa ng INC ngayon, walang isip isip, takbo agad sa kalsada. Facepalm n lang si Lord.

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