It is all the same whether the Philippines is ruled by a Marcos or an Aquino Filipinos reportedly say

In a feature article on the 24th November 2012 edition of Good Weekend, the weekend magazine of major Australian broadsheet The Sydney Morning Herald, Aussie journalist Jackie Dent writes about her experience speaking to the surviving family members of the late former Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos. The article delves into the rise and fall of the Marcos regime and insights provided by family members, notably wife Imelda and children Maria Imelda (Imee) and Ferdinand Jr (Bongbong), of their experience living through all that.

A notable excerpt from the article offers us Marcos’s eldest daughter and current Ilocos Norte Governor Imee’s remarkably candid take on the banal reality of dynastic politics in the Philippines…

Imee — whacky, wise-cracking and a crush for some male journalists in Manila, the capital — admits she struggles with the governor’s job she has “avoided for years”; she’d rather be in Manila, making films, cartoons and games with Cream, her production company. Her film career has had some success, too; her part-animation hip-hop fairy tale, Pintakasi, won a number of awards at the recent Metro Manila Film Festival. But she was forced to take on the job when her cousin, Michael Marcos Keon, who became governor of Ilocos Norte in 2007, declined to run again in 2010. No one else in the family was available or interested.

Why does a Marcos have to run all the time? “It’s the whole Filipino system — they really count on you, they have all these expectations,” she tells me. “Your family is taking care of their family, which is taking care of your family and it just goes on and on and on. It’s pretty feudal in the Philippines still, even though we like to fool ourselves.”

Dent jumps off this to continue her own observation…

It is normal in the former US and Spanish colony for families to control provinces for generations — the Laurel clan run Batangas, the Osmeñas control Cebu, the Lopez family manages Iloilo. The Aquinos — arch foes of the Marcoses — have run Tarlac for five generations and are currently the most powerful clan, with Benigno “Noynoy” Aquino III now president, a job held by his mother Corazon (or “Cory”), who succeeded Ferdinand Marcos in 1986. The animosity between the two families is akin to that of the Montagues and Capulets. Like a grand sporting game, Filipinos root either for a Marcos or an Aquino. Or hate them both.

Coming from an Aussie journalist, this is a spot-on summarisation of the Third World “democratic” politics of the Philippines — a country ruled by an elite clique of politically- and financially-savvy oligarchs by virtue of the popular vote that seals their mandate to govern. Dent also quotes veteran journalist Carmen Pedrosa who offers what most Filipinos already know — that it is really all just the same whoever sits in Malacañang and it is likely that history will simply repeat itself…

Pedrosa says dissatisfaction with the current Aquino regime has led people to ask whether the Marcoses were so bad. “They contrast the two families and say things like: ‘At least during Marcos’s time we saw things being built and now there is nothing, just incompetence,’” she says. “There is also disappointment that we had a revolution but it did nothing to change lives. People think: ‘What does it matter? It is just the same whether we have Marcos or Aquino.’”

Indeed, who sits in Malacañang ultimately does not matter as the Filipino vote is in reality a random and arbitrary force that surfs the tide of whatever the national mood might be following the most recent episode of the most popular TV telenovela that may happen to have been aired the previous night. It is a simple political equation in a country where personality trumps ideas when it comes to evaluating options.

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Post Author: benign0

benign0 is the Webmaster of GetRealPhilippines.com.

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97 Comments on "It is all the same whether the Philippines is ruled by a Marcos or an Aquino Filipinos reportedly say"

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Libertas
Guest

And with the dinosaurs in UNA – binay, enrile, estrada (and their work shy offspring) as the ‘supposed opposition/alternative’, then the only certainty is that nothing will change in the next two generations as the corrupt dynasties play ‘show me the money’ , and spend their time on ther scas or mistresses or in their favourite place – the USA.
What a sick society.
and p-noy through his stupidity, incompetence, and hypocricy will prove to be the worst of them all.
the rest of the world see it so clearly, but the masses fall everytime for any lie/scam.

swagger
Guest

There is already change happening I tell you for the betterment of the country

Ilda
Admin

@swagger

Please be specific about your claim for the benefit of the readers. 😉

swagger
Guest

http://business.inquirer.net/95447/philippine-economy-grows-7-1-in-third-quarter

Aquinomics at work!
Kudos to the entire
PNoy economic team
and to the Filipino
people.

Our president may not be perfect but he has the political will and the personal intentions to bring back the glory stolen by past presidents, specifically,
Marcos and GMA. We were hopeless during the dark ages of GMA’s regime. Now, the light is slowly emerging at the end of the tunnel.

Remember, in order to
eradicate poverty in the
PHL, we need 20 years
of sustainable growth.

DaidoKatsumi
Guest

@swagger: That news can be a farce. Aquinomics, in fact, can led to disaster since Noynoy is slamming more doors for foreign investors in favor of local cronies.

Bababa rin iya. 😛 Not being pessismist but I’m a realist.

DaidoKatsumi
Guest

TROLL.

Like Ilda said, please be specific. 🙂 If not, then you’re already lost.

swagger
Guest

It is you that is defeated.

DaidoKatsumi
Guest

@swagger: Nope. It is YOU that’s because you’re just only one-liners and added nothing to the discussion.

Trolling much?

domo
Guest

Are you stupid to the max vincensus ignoramus? You are already being dominated here that you’re being very desperate by bitching with epic fail one-liners. Teka lang kunin ko sinturon ko para paluin kita sa pwet mo. Napakagulo mong bata e.

Johnny Derp
Guest

When we catch this troll,I’ll be sure to introduce him to the business end of my spiked metal bat, FACE FIRST

Johnny Derp
Guest

@swagfag

Care to cite sources that are not known to be asslickers of the aquinos? No? then what you claim is only your imagination.

Dante Pogi
Guest

+1

Johnny Saint
Guest
benign0, The article reinforced the idea I have about our people. Filipinos have a distorted notion of the world. We look at our society and recognize that there is a disparity between the rich and poor, the haves and the have-nots, the ruling class and the ruled. People hold the belief that the rich and those in power are stealing from the rest of the public, keeping the rest of us from realizing our aspirations. To be fair, that is often true. Our leaders — their henchmen, their relatives — have been proven to enrich themselves by taking advantage of… Read more »
Andrew
Guest

“It never seemed to occur to Filipinos that the failure of our society isn’t just because a select few are depriving the majority of their share but because we failed to build a society based on proper education, the rule of law, and the promotion of innovation and entrepreneurship. Had we done so we would be closer to Japan or Korea in terms of development. With responsible leaders and competent bureaucrats to boot.”

Right.

stahlnacht
Guest
Personally, I would prefer Marcos, Erap, GMA. Even though they all stole from the nation, they actually showed that they were also doing something for it and with it. Graft, corruption, and all that jazz should be removed from the system, but if I really had a choice, I’d chose people, presidents, leaders, that really have done something of substance, irregardless of what wrongs they have committed against the nation as a whole. Marcos, I believe, was the last of the Gentlemen, the last of the serious politicians. I say Gentlemen, because I think of Marcos and his kind, his… Read more »
JEREMY BENDER
Guest
HA HA HA,that is a good one.Marcos “the last of the gentleman”.Wow,sounds like you knew him personally.Marcos was a shill,he was a good boy for his master/daddy and he used the assurances his master/daddy gave him to plunder the entire countries wealth,all of it.He was planted in his position(when he instituted M.L.) by the people who really run the USA.Martial law was implemented at the time when the Vietnam war was going to have to come to an end. The people who were running that war could not have the wrong government in power here.After all it was/is so close… Read more »
ren car
Guest

If Marcos is alive and still the President today, we would not even have this conversation. All anti-Marcos ppl will either land in jail or just disappear.

Here is an opinion about the Marcos regime:

https://raissarobles.com/2014/02/09/stopping-the-marcoses-from-erasing-their-crimes-from-history/

ChinoF
Member
Some people may not like Imee Marcos for who she is. But if you ask me, she made a lot of sense in what she said. Basically, she says that the same feudal lords are still ruling over the country because the people want it. Isn’t that obvious? It may not be all the people, but a significant number are hung up on an old order, on old ways of doing things. They aren’t leveling up anymore. They are instead staying trapped in time. That’s the way they did it before, and evil if it kills them, that’s the way… Read more »
RF Garcia
Guest

stahlnacht is right to prefer Marcos, Erap and GMA. Who in his right senses would not? They have their own faults but much of these were bloated by the media, while their achievements in uplifting the country were set aside and forgotten. Try and list down the benefits that the country has gained from these achievers. In another paper list down those for the present. Oh… never mind.

jonphil
Guest

If GMA was bad, Erap was worse, & Marcos’ plunder was worst. And Imee once again giving us BSh!t. I don’t buy a crook’s descendant’s justification.

No need for the media to brainwash the public, just query your folks – if they’re rationally educated.

BenignO is right. The ‘leaders’ are only half of the problem; the other half is the non-thinking mass/voters.

Hyden Toro
Guest

Nothing will change; even if the Marcoses will be in power again. We, ourselves must change. These people take care of themselves; not us. They have followers, who are waiting for opportunities to enrich themselves. Some change sides, like a reversible jacket; whoever is in power. The Aquinos have their Hacienda Luisita. And they feature themselves as Saints and Holy. The Marcoses have the looting of the National Treasury. So, same Dogs, only different collars.

T4Man
Guest

Let’s not forget the belief that supporting a politician (crooked or otherwise) means getting special treatment in return or at least bragging rights. “I know So-and-so he/she is my friend, I supported him/her in the last election”. It doesn’t matter if that support is harmful to everyone else.

JEREMY BENDER
Guest
The title of the article is accurate.Politicians just take the peoples tax money and well…steal it.It does not matter who is actually the ‘President’ of any country,HA.Happens in every country in the world,it is just done with a little more audacity in the Philippines and other banana republics around the globe.The new buzz-word is impunity,and the shoe fits. It is entertaining at least to see the media portraying the sleazy-ass syphillitic street walker politicians as some sort of respectable elite type personage.Since the time of the Caesars it is a well know fact that the leaders of any country are… Read more »
Bill Steffen
Guest
Right Jeremy. I see the same happening in the US. Politicians everywhere are the bottom feeders of the world. Just as a parting thought: I was here during Marcos time and it was a better country then. Cleaner, more orderly, and much more progressive. One of our founding fathers said “Sometimes it is better to live under a benevolent Dictator than a corrupt Democracy”. I think it was Ben Franklin, but I can’t swear to that.
JEREMY BENDER
Guest
U kno Bill,I bet it was a better place to live w/Marcos,but if what is being reported was/is accurate he was one of the BIGGEST thieves in the history of Mankind.The POS is up there with Caligula,if what is being reported is true.From Westinghouse Corporation alone,for the Nuclear facility that was never put on-line,he pocketed almost a billion dollars and that is 1980’s Dollars.It is funny how sometimes I see people on this site, and others, proclaiming (almost as if it is something to be proud of) that the USA is imitating the Philippines when it comes to corruption at… Read more »
Johnny Saint
Guest
Bill, It may certainly have seemed more progressive in the Philippines under Marcos. I’m sure it was, especially for expats and multinational companies. The other side of the coin — the local Filipino workers, the entrepreneurs — would beg to differ. Marcos secured his second term through an election riddled with fraud and violence. In doing so he exhausted the country’s coffers. Without reserves, the Philippine government was overwhelmed with a massive trade deficit and mounting external debt. With no choices left, Marcos turned to the United States government, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund to maintain his… Read more »
Bill Steffen
Guest
So what makes Marcos different than any other Politician? Look what you have now. Aquino. The Grandfather was a Japanese collaborator, the Father a Communist, the Mother, who knows? My point is this, how much better off are Filipinos today than they were then? Not much, if at all. I agree that the PH was raped by Multinational Companies, but how has that changed? It has not. I don’t agree with any of it, but it is the way of the world and it is going to get worse, not better. If you think any Politician has the best interest… Read more »
Johnny Saint
Guest
None taken Bill. Let me just start off by saying THANK YOU, BILL! We appreciate what you did for the Philippines. — Just want to be clear. I’m not against America or Americans. I admire what your country stands for. I don’t hold a grudge for what the US/World Bank economic plan caused in the Philippines. I understand that in the scheme of things the US should put the interests of the US first. Not the other way around. I do have an issue with Filipino leaders who cannot think long term and put the nation’s welfare ahead of their… Read more »
joeld
Guest

Marcos focused more on the development of the Philippines as a nation. In elementary school, Marcos time, pupils were instilled with values which were crucial to the typical Filipino mindset, such as self-reliance and patriotism. They were not fed with trash from TV. In contrast with the present where the term freedom is skewed to mean free for all. An idiot in Malacanang just there to get revenge and take care of his own clan’s interests. He can’t even represent our country without making a fool of himself.

Johnny Saint
Guest

joeld,

The belief that Marcos’ intention was primarily to serve the Philippines is ludicrous. The techniques he practiced were more akin to indoctrination, similar to North Korean and Chinese models. The idea was to inculcate in the people subservience to his New Society Movement (KBL) and an acceptance of every dictate of the regime.

swagger
Guest

But Philippines cannot be communist. Buti na lang we expelled him in 1986

DaidoKatsumi
Guest

Lies. Marcos didn’t support communism; he opposed it. Now I wonder why Cory had freed Joma Sison and other members of the CPP?

Ang BOBO mo. 🙂

Bill Steffen
Guest

Hey Fishball, you might want to pick up a History book and read it. All I see coming from your mouth is the Communist Manifesto. Bwahahahahahaha

Johnny Derp
Guest

@Swagfag
“But Philippines cannot be communist.”

Read this you dumb fag:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_insurgency_in_the_Philippines

Fishball, you continue to fail. Why do you continue to let yourself be humiliated again? You might as well resign from the malacanang comms team if your LOSING streak continues.

NonExtremist
Guest
wasnt it ninoy aquino who supported communism? i even asked some who were alive during that marcos regime and they were very objective as in saying that ninoy aquino was pro communism..and regarding the the linked article that you posted. an increase in GDP does not equate to a better life for filipinos… you have to remember where the money goes to … this increase goes to the wealthy not to the workers, it doesnt even equate to increased employment. if you want to talk about economics then its best to learn economics but not just the basics that they… Read more »
Bill Steffen
Guest

Well said Johnny. Not just here, but everywhere in the world.

NonExtremist
Guest

the link is to wikipedia, isnt there a more credible source? we all know that wikipedia can be tweaked

joeld
Guest

@johnny saint,

“The belief that Marcos’ intention was primarily to serve the Philippines is ludicrous.”

I know. My point is, maybe it is better for Filipinos to be handled that way. Not like now that a lot of Filipinos or just acting as mere lemmings of the yellow king. Look around, self-discipline is virtually non-existent. What Filipinos need is someone who can lead them to the right path (not the daang matuwid, mind you).

Johnny Saint
Guest
I understand that out of frustration, you might want to explicitly impose values and morals that SEEM to have worked for countries like Singapore and South Korea. Admittedly, there are very good reasons for fostering social cohesion and “rooted-ness” to your country of birth. Not the least of which are building national unity, economic success and impressing ideas such as morality, truth, justice and mercy on the youth. However this “values education” approach is based on certain untenable notions. From a practical perspective, the results are not quantifiable. Because values education is highly subjective, there can be no universal benchmark… Read more »
Johnny Saint
Guest

NonExtremist,

The “people” you asked must not know what was going on at the time. The (communist) insurgency was a looming presence in Tarlac in the 1960s. Being the calculating, opportunistic political humbug that he was, Ninoy Aquino was not above using the insurgents (even allying) himself with them to foment a civil war against the Marcos regime. This does not constitute a belief in, much less promotion of, the communist ideology. The most that can be said is that Ninoy’s dealings with the communists served only as a stepping stone to install him as president.

Eddy
Guest

Hi,

I was reading a book about East Asia’s history and economic development. The Book focused on the Leaders of Singapore, Korea, Japan, Hong Kong and how they put up policies for economic development. The pattern I’ve noticed is that all of those leaders and Industrialists featured in the book employed some form of dictatorship, authoritarianism and control in the name of economic development. Some of these leaders no doubt were alive during Marcos’ time. I can’t help but think Marcos was trying to do the same thing as these other east Asian leaders back then, But along the got convoluted.

JEREMY BENDER
Guest
Well it would be really nice if it could be credited to the brains of the powerful elite rulers in South East Asia that gave rise to the so called Aisan Tigers that are around for about 60 years now.BUT BUT BUT The ENTIRE truth of the matter is the WEST has orchestrated or flat out done all of it and todays’ Chinese empire exists only because the West’s Corporations have given all of the manufacturing jobs to people who enslave workers that will work for a fraction of what a USA or European worker would and should be making… Read more »
Johnny Saint
Guest
Eddy, No doubt economic policy under the Marcos regime attempted to follow the trend in the 1980’s and was influenced by it. The exceptionally high growth rates and rapid industrialization of the Asian Tiger/Dragon economies — Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore — are compelling arguments for the type of policies they implemented. And who wouldn’t want to emulate that kind of success in a market economy? Make no mistake. Marcos’ intention was to subjugate the Philippines and transfer control of the major industries to himself (acting through intermediaries) friends and relatives. Basically — they treated the country like… Read more »
swagger
Guest

The Filipinos to the Marcos and Arroyo regime:

JUSTICE!!

DaidoKatsumi
Guest

And then, WHAT’S NEXT?

There is no justice with INCOMPETENCE, mind you.

Ethioswag
Guest

Aquinos to the Filipinos on Blackouts, high prices and rising criminality:

Just Tiis!

Johnny Derp
Guest

Aquino to the millions of suffering filipinos on high taxes,high electricity bills and high everything else:

WHAT ME WORRY?

MidwayHaven
Guest

Looks like swagger suffers from a severe bout of Pinoy Revisionism.

Johnny Derp
Guest

Trolling, More retarded in the malacanang comms group

JEREMY BENDER
Guest
You seem to have it correctly.Nixon and Kissinger did not give a shit about anyone in the USA or The Philippines.Just keep the Philippines under control and they told Marcos to do it at any cost.AND boy did he.The guy commenting Marcos was a gentleman? I almost feel sorry for him,but can not as to equate a mass-murdering POS thief to a gentleman is just in-excusable ignorance.The people here will get no change until they take it upon themselves as Marcos did,at any cost.Until then the vote will continue to be rigged if the wrong person appears to be winning,the… Read more »
Thomas Jefferson
Guest

The real truth about the straight and crooked path from the Daily Tribune:

http://www.tribune.net.ph/index.php/headlines/item/7451-rubber-stamp-congress-resurrects-under-noy

ChinoF
Member

I already suspected from 2010 that the current administration would be like this.

swagger
Guest

What do you expect from a Tribune writeup?

DaidoKatsumi
Guest

And what do you expect from an Inquirer writeup?

Ethioswag
Guest

A whole lot better than whatever you can post as a comment, that’s what.

Johnny Derp
Guest

@swagfag
“What do you expect from a Tribune writeup?”

The TRUTH

What do I expect from a malacanang troll like you?

STUPIDITY

Gogs
Member

Fishball , last I looked Tribune and Standard are legitimate papers and not tabloids. I have written in the past how come they get stories about your beloved idol that others do not. If not true why aren’t any of Noynoy legal lapdogs going after them for libel / lying? Troll harder. Give my love to the Minister of Truth. Hope you are enjoying your new smart phone. Pa share.

Thomas Jefferson
Guest
Attention Benigno and all the guys and girls… An excerpt from the Philippine Star(November 29, 2012): “Economy soars 7.1% in Q3 by Ted Torres and Delon Porcalla” “The Philippine economy moved the fastest in South-east Asia in the third quarter at 7.1 percent from a year earlier, coming just a little behind China’s growth and surpassing projections. “This was possible due to sustained confidence in the leadership of President Aquino and his administration, which has consistently equated good governance with good economics,” presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said yesterday, referring to the record growth… Is this a hint of black propaganda… Read more »
swagger
Guest

It is JEALOUSY that is making you see that its black propaganda. Just accept the fact that the student is better than his teacher.

DaidoKatsumi
Guest

Farce.

It seems there is another SPAMMER here. Isn’t that right… FISHBALL? 😛

Thomas Jefferson
Guest

A different view from the Daily Tribune:

http://www.tribune.net.ph/index.php/headlines/item/7490-gdp-grows-71-in-q3-from-low-base-in-2011

@swagger

You do not seem to get the point. I am not jealous about your great leader. The only fact I accept is the search for the truth. Your blind loyalty is apparent. Are you a member of the bow well movement 188 or just a Carandang lackey? Get real.

BenK
Editor

Thank you, I’m glad somebody finally pointed that out. In real math, the 7.1% still represents about a 1.5% recession.

aaaaa
Guest

Hi Fishball.

Gogs
Member

Forgive Fishball and Truth Minister Ricky. They have new toys that they have been dying to use.

Johnny Derp
Guest

@SwagFAG
Give us a VALID reason why we would be jealous of someone who is clearly incapable to leading this country?

Johnny Derp
Guest

No answer from “swagger”. Guess that means that he has nothing to show after all. All bark but no bite. Talks the talk but can’t walk the walk. That’s the malacanang comms group in a nutshell.

[(Yc-Yl/Yl)]x100%
Guest

Call it Press Release Economics….and he didn’t learn that in school.

NCSB has not published 2011 and 2012 GDP Account details (the previous years’ data are all there however), yet they are able to release such pronouncements to the press.

DaidoKatsumi
Guest

A friend posted this. And this is for Fishball-esque trolls and a$$lickers like swagger a.k.a. Squatter Swagger:

“Good news for the oligarchs. The economy of the Philippines expanded 7.1 percent. Can’t wait to see the 2013 update ng mga net worth ng mga Sy,Tan, Cojuancos, Aquinos, Lopezes, Gozons etc. Ilang billions dollars kaya ang nadagdag sa net worth nila? Abangan!!!!!!

Juan De La Cruz????????????????? Pweeeeeh!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hindi ka kasama! Magtanim ka nalang ng kamote sa kabilugan ng buwan!”

T4Man
Guest

At least in the US there are people willing to stick up for their rights. Here, the vast majority accepts what they are told without question (mostly because they don’t want to think about it) then bends over and takes it.

JEREMY BENDER
Guest

It is just sad and true.The more things change the more they stay the same.The Fils got screwed by their own leaders.Just like the people of the USA have been screwed into poverty by the bail-out of the banks(whose private debts are not and should not be considered PUBLIC debts…and the people should not get stuck with the bill!) and the cost of the War that is not even a War.Face it folks if you ain’t a 1%-er,seek shelter.

Willy
Guest
Ang huwad na tuwad na nakikita na ay wag na nyo bigyan ng iba pa na pagkilala… lahat ng mapagkunwari ay nakikita na at nararamdaman ng higit na nakararami. alam na natin lahat kung anu ang blue red and white, nakita na rin natin kung anu ang ibig sabihin ng maka-pula, mas lalo pa kung saan at anu ang ginagawa ng maka dilaw…. ang punot dulo ng kahirapan sa pinas ay tayo rin na mga pinoy ang may sala.. kong may magagawa ka gawin mo nalang sa responsable mo na pag boto at paglagak ng tiwala mo sa nararapat na… Read more »
bing de la vega
Guest
To those who blog and chastise the present administration of P-Noy are usally the ones who tasted the honey during the Marcos and or Arroyo years and have become addicted to ellicit wealth, plundered loot. They refuse to recognize tnhat P-Noy is curbing if not reducing corruption that all his predecessors failed to do. Or some eve ndid not touch it at all. Arroyo plundered more than all her predecessors. More than Marcos took with him to Hawaii. Okay, tackling corruption is like eradicating rats. Impossible but at least clean up and sweep around to stop the same lynches from… Read more »
StopDrinkingVirility
Guest
Lies. Corruption is rampant in the government because the government was treated like a spectator sport, putting people like rampant corruption is because of how the people VIEW the government as a spectator sport, put people like Pnoy, other affluent familial last names and former showbiz people to politics, then when s&&& breaks out, they react as if they weren’t aware of the repercussions. If you are insistent on corruption and not on Marcos or Arroyo, then get everybody. Why is PNoy and his family getting away with incident of Hacienda Luisita? How about the other politicians? Barrangay governments on… Read more »
Johnny Derp
Guest
“To those who blog and chastise the present administration of P-Noy are usally the ones who tasted the honey during the Marcos and or Arroyo years and have become addicted to ellicit wealth, plundered loot” I call my bullshit card on that one. Yet another stupid accusation by a wannabe troll. “They refuse to recognize tnhat P-Noy is curbing if not reducing corruption that all his predecessors failed to do.” Oh really? Then tell us why aquino is not putting his corrupt KKK in jail then? “Or some eve ndid not touch it at all. Arroyo plundered more than all… Read more »
NonExtremist
Guest

what can be done and should be done is what im really interested in. is it a lost cause?

Gogs
Member

For starters don’t elect self serving morons. Problem lies within us.

Dino
Guest

Stop Debating, just do your part and help in your own capacity and in your own ideals, we are part of the problem because we just talk about it and not do anything, grrrrr!!!

Blackagar Boltagon
Guest

(“Small minds discuss people. Average minds discuss events. Great minds discuss IDEAS.”)

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